Originally Posted by Fred H.

Hmmm. Tom can’t seem to make up his mind—first everything is deterministic and free will is an illusion, then he declares that he feels much more in control of a deterministic universe, and now he’s back to it’s all an illusion.

Well, OK, whatever—apparently Tom’s back to where this started—Since Tom is convinced that we humans are not morally responsible for our behavior, that any free will is an illusion, that it’s all deterministic, then if in fact Carey and I do not agree, then it is and always was inevitable (deterministic) that Carey an I would not agree.

So what’s Tom’s beef? If it’s all deterministic, then it’s all deterministic . . . except, apparently, that Tom would have a beef is/was also deterministic . . . and that he would assert that everything is deterministic and that human free will is an illusion, and then, discordantly, also declare that he feels much more in control of a deterministic universe, and then again, to add discord to discord, continue to maintain that everything is deterministic and that human free will is an illusion, is/was also, apparently, in Tom’s universe, inevitable/deterministic. Period. The end.

My own view is that Tom’s reasoning and arguing skills are dismal. But maybe that’s just me.

Tom, you have the last word, as incoherent (i.e., lacking cohesion, connection, or harmony; not coherent: incoherent fragments of a story; unable to think or express one's thoughts in a clear or orderly manner) and inconsistent as I’m certain it will be.